Air Conditioner Retrofit Problem

1992 Ford Taurus R12 to R134a

Caution: Before putting R-134a in R-12 System

FLUSH IT OUT! Important - Urgent

Expect cross contamination unless flushed!

Blow out with compressed air.

Evacuate (vacuum pump) ONE HOUR (1 hr).

Automotive A/C troubleshooting, repair & service information   HELP

    Purchased a "retrofit kit".
  1. Installed R134a fittings.
  2. Evacuated system, connected to both low and high ports.
  3. Charged system to 85% by weight, polyol ester oil and R134a.
  4. Set charge to 32psi low-side at about 80F per advice as best for R134a.
  5. Ambient pressure readings track within 1-2 pounds at 65F to 87F.
  6. Cooled good for about one month - working great!
  7. Stopped Cooling.
  8. At 1800 rpm low-side=75psi high-side=125psi. Two different sets of gauges.
  9. At idle, 750 rpm pressures go to virtually ambient temperature.
  10. Compressor never cycles-Off, disconnect low-press switch and disengages.
  11. Removed enough R134a to verify ambient tracking, recharged.
  12. Same Bad Pressure Readings!
  13. Changed out Accumulator-Suction Line and Liquid Line-Orifice Tube.
  14. Evacuated.
  15. Charged to 85% - ambient pressure good at temperature.
  16. Low-side=75psi and High-Side=125psi, 1800 rpm, same problem?
  17. Ten year old vehicle, only 95,000 miles, very good except A/C.
  18. Something plugged - stopped up or bad compressor?
  19. Anyone with similiar problem and what was solution?
  20. Dumb things I wish I had done before doing a retrofit, scroll below picture.

typical diagram, auto-vehicle air conditioner
diagram/image   ac92taurus.png   width=608px height=352px, 5.4KB

    Should have done
  1. Paid an Air Conditioning Shop to "top off R12".
    150 - 200 bucks for a pound of some R12 looks like a good deal now.
    Cooling had not stopped, just not very cool and compressor cycling excessive.
    Ten years to leak enough to have reduced cooling is not much of a leak.
    The A/C had never been recharged in ten years!
    Spent approximately $220.00 for an unsuccessful lesson
    in learning by doing it wrong; Well it was an experience.
    But, only temporary - up front results. Was NOT fixed when car traded.
    Now I know what the black residue liquid in orifice tube line was.


  2. Should have "flushed it out" before evacuating and adding R134a.
    A missed detail unaware of in retrofit literature, until visiting the following:


  3. Get all the right info about auto A/C systems!
    Automotive A/C troubleshooting, repair & service information
    Questions about auto A/C? Visit the A/C Forum at the COOL ZONE! via above link



  4. Also some info at:
    www.aircondition.com and www.ackits.com and the FORUMS.
    Each has some great "tips".  Read their information, it's free.


  5. Should have known anything as cheap and easy as:
       Put on two fittings
       Run vacuum pump for an hour
       Charge to 85% of 40 ounces
       Was too good to be true.
       Don't get "conned by advertising hype."


  6. Scroll down page for another persons experience.


E-mail Author: Jack Taylor at www.f11view.net

To: Table of Contents - Requires F11 Full Screen

To: www.f11view.net  HomePage; also requires F11 Full Screen.

Let's Eliminate the Sales Tax on Food in South Carolina


FLUSH IT OUT!

Save MONEY - Avoid Problems.

FLUSH IT OUT!

Avoid 'Black Death'  Syndrome

FLUSH IT OUT!


Read this before ever attempting a conversion!

http://yarchive.net/ac/r134a_conversions.html

Solvents MAY NOT be good enough, read above link



Get all the right info about auto A/C systems!
Automotive A/C troubleshooting, repair & service information


"Quoting"  a section of above link by JOHN ADLER:

So the first steps to a PROPER conversion include changing out the hoses and the dryer. The other components must be cleaned of all old oil. I used to use R-11 for this before it was banned. I use N-Hexane now when I can get it and liquid propane when I can't. The reason I go to all this trouble and don't just use some common solvent is that such low vapor pressure solvents tend to penetrate the rubber and then diffuse back out later when the system is in service. The solvents will also contaminate your vacuum and recovery system.

If your system has either high or low head pressure switches, they must be changed too, because they trap oil and chlorides and can't be flushed.

If your AC is marginal with R-12 (many imports), it will be worse with 134a. You lose an average of 10% cooling capacity when you do a conversion. I recommend installing a larger condenser if practical to help compensate for this.

"End Quote" 



Subj: May I ask question?
Date: 7/1/02 1:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:
To: CONSSULT@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi, Jack:

When I search for information about my 93 Ford Taurus
Air Conditioner issue, I found the follwing page:
http://www.f11view.net/misc/ac_retrofit_problem.html

I don't know if you are the owner of THE car, if you
are and you don't mind, I would like to see if you
have find the problem, otherwise, please discard the
e-mail.

My car had almost exact same issue as yours. I convert
R12 to R134a, run for a month (worked great), then
stopped working one day. I checked the low pressure
end pressure, it was at 100psi. I removed some R134a
to let the pressure drop to 25psi, but nothing worked.
I sent car to a shop, they don't want work on it
because they are afraid to spend too much time, so I
have to just figure out on my own.

Thanks in advance.

Charles

Subj: Re: May I ask question?
Date: 7/1/02
To: chonghui00@yahoo.com

Yes. Charles,

Sounds identical to the problem we had.

We owned the car then, but my wife has since traded it,
car was in prime condition except for air conditioner,
only 95,000 miles.

Did not get the problem resolved before she decided
it was taking too long............................................

Suspect, but did was unable to confirm "Black-Death"
restriction flow.

Should have cleaned (flushed out), blew out with compressed air,
then vacuum pump for at least one hour before adding R-134a.

After reading numerous forum posts also it is a weakness with the
compressor on 92 Taurus I believe.

Good Luck,
Regards,
Jack Taylor

Subj: Re: May I ask question?-FollowUp
Date: 8/4/02
To: chonghui00@yahoo.com
BCC: aeioun

Charles,

Did you find a solution to your 1993 Taurus
Air Conditioning Retrofit R12 to R134a problem?

By chance did you purchase IDG Freon R134a Kit
at Wal-Mart ?

If this yahoo.com e-mail address is your
"spam avoider" MAY I post it on the page
I have the retrofit problem on?

Revising the page to put my "spam avoider"
e-mail address on it also.

It will not help me, but it may someone else,
and just might lend to more specific solutions.
The page has had about 1,000 hits more than I
expected.

Regards,
Jack Taylor
Automotive A/C troubleshooting, repair & service information

Subj: Re: May I ask question?-FollowUp
Date: 8/5/02 9:28:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: chonghui00@yahoo.com
To: CONSSULT@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Jack:

I send my car to a shop, they diagnosed that there
were 2 problems:
1. CCRM (constant control relay module) is bad. This
cause no power on the pressure switch. After they
replaced it, the AC can be activitated, but

2. The Retrofit is not clean at all. All refrigerant are
contaminated, plus, the system was overcharged
(according to them, it is overcharged too much). So
they flushed the system, changed oil and recharged it.

The whole thing costs me $900.

I got R134a from K-mart.

You may post this resolution on your page. Hopefully
someone can use it.

Thanks

Charles


ejrhes e-img-png  on 16APRIL2003 writes:
Jack do not feel bad,my compressor seized today after spending 962.50 dollars back in MAY of 2001 AND IT WAS FLUSHED OUT SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT ANOTHER CAR !~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea you can post my e-mail so more people do not get ripped off, like me.

FLUSH IT OUT!

Save MONEY - Avoid Problems.

FLUSH IT OUT!

Avoid 'Black Death'  Syndrome

FLUSH IT OUT!